990 lines
41 KiB
Plaintext
990 lines
41 KiB
Plaintext
#############
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# The following is 'midimerge' from the midi-archive.
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#############
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This is a collection of MMML messages concerning MIDI merging.
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It's sorted chronologically, mostly.
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===============================================================
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>From uucp Mon Feb 13 14:15 EST 1989
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>From rft Mon Feb 13 13:20 EST 1989 remote from cblpe
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To: All MMMLers
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Subject: Merging MIDI sources together
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I need to merge two (possibly more) MIDI out signals together.
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Any recommendations?
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Rick Taylor
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cblpe!rft
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CB 1D343
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614-860-2006
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>From uucp Mon Feb 13 16:08 EST 1989
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>From wbf Mon Feb 13 16:04 EST 1989 remote from cbema
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Subject: MIDI Merging
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Rick,
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Come see my Digital Music MX-8 to see if it is what you want. If
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you don't really need merging, a swith box is all you need. These are less
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expensive to buy and you can build your own if you like.
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Bill Fox cbema!wbf
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>From tjt Mon Feb 13 23:32 EST 1989
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To: midi
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Subject: Re: MIDI Merging
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>From mosc Mon Feb 13 22:41:17 1989 remote from aloft
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From: aloft!mosc (52232-H. S. Moscovitz)
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I have read some comments on midi-mergers on the MMML. I will share
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my experience on the subject. Understanding these devices is fairly
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simple, not quite as tricky as microcode programming a floating point
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DSP chip.
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I have the J. L. Cooper MSB Plus midi-merge/router/filter/transposer
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box. It provides 8X8 midi routing and switching, and id can merge any
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two inputs to any of 8 outputs. It is very programmable and stores
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about 64 settings (I use only two). It has two independent midi
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processors that can do channel bumping, transposition and midi
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filtering. You can filter note, pitch bend, controller, after-touch,
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program changes, real time, and/or systems exclusive/systems common
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commands.
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The MSB is hard to beat in the user friendliness department. This unit
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is sure to please any macho-hard-core-techno electronic musician. You
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won't find any whimpy graphical liquid crystal displays on this
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device. Here's the scoop on one of the refreshing highlights of the user
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interface directly from the owners manual: "The program memory and
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display of the MSB Plus use a modified Octal from, rather than the
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normal decimal due to the 8 select push buttons. That is, instead of
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showing (and selecting) patches 1 thru 64, you will use 11 thru 88. In
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this system, for example, patch 21 is directly after 18." After
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careful study, I have determined that the modified octal system is
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very much like the conventional octal system, except that the 0 digit
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is not used, but 8 is. Pretty nice huh? But wait, there's more:
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For the sake of consistency, the MSB Plus uses the modified hexidecimal
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number system for representing midi channels. I am pleased to see the
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manufacturer boldly offer a novel new number system where 'F'==15,
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and '0'==16.
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An unexpected feature is the red panic button. It is a momentary
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on/off switch that generates a very complex sequence of midi events to
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intended to turn off all stuck-on notes in your midi network. It
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starts off with a simple midi "all notes off" message and then sends a
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complex sequence of midi events on all channels for five seconds, or
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until you release the button. This sequence is a paranoid midi
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musician's dream.
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When I first got the unit home I was curious, so I began setting up
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various pathological midi hook-ups to see if I could find the panic
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button's limitations. The MSB's flexible routing capabilities made it
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easy to set up variations on infinite midi loops, even with automatic
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transposition! The waves of sound generated by my synthesizers were
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electrifying. (I'm sure Jimi Hendrix would have switched to keyboards
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had he heard this.) The MSB has shown me there are vast new musical
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horizons. The panic button does its assigned job flawlessly.
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Howard Moscovitz
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att!aloft!mosc
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>From uucp Tue Feb 14 12:12 EST 1989
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>From gjm Tue Feb 14 11:50:10 EST 1989 remote from coma
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Subject: Re: JLCooper MSB+
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I can second Howard Moscovitz's recommendation of the MSB+. I have found
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it essential for coordinating many synths and dealing with various pieces
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of software (different provisions for echo, etc.). If you have two devices
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that are the same (e.g. TX81Z's, or TF1 modules in a TX rack), it is useful
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for configuring them separately (e.g. separating them out of lock-step with
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the same system channel to different system channels).
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I regularly use the midi merge capability, but have experienced data loss
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under heavy load (sequencer + keyboard), so be forwarned. The KX88 merges
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its input to its output port -- this is the most common merging that I want
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(sequencer + KX88 keyboard) and it seems to be able to handle the merge
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with fewer problems than the MSB+. Both can run into problems with large
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data dumps (an obvious midi merge problem).
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How well do some of the other midi switch/merge boxes behave under heavy
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load or sysex dump conditions?
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-Gary
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P.S. Sorry about the duplicate article (Research mailer vs. BSD Mail confusion).
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>From tjt Tue Feb 14 12:38 EST 1989
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To: midi
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Subject: Re: JLCooper MSB+
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> >From gjm Tue Feb 14 11:50:10 EST 1989 remote from coma
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> I regularly use the midi merge capability, but have experienced data loss
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> under heavy load (sequencer + keyboard), so be forwarned. The KX88 merges
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> its input to its output port .... and it seems to be able to handle the merge
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> with fewer problems than the MSB+. Both can run into problems with large
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> data dumps (an obvious midi merge problem).
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The reaction of the KX88 to large data dumps is pretty amusing - on mine,
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at least, it just goes completely bananas, LED's blinking wildly, and refuses
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to do anything unless you power cycle it. Does the MSB+ react in the
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same catastrophic way? ...Tim...
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>From tjt Tue Feb 14 13:30 EST 1989
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To: midi
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Subject: re: COoPer OctAl pAnic
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>From mosc Tue Feb 14 13:13:54 1989 remote from aloft
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From: aloft!mosc (52232-H. S. Moscovitz)
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In response to Andy McDonough:
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do they charge money for this? are they available?
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Yes one can purchase a Cooper MPU Plus for somewhere around $350 (if
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my memory serves me well, which it usually doen't). It really is a
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very nice box that makes it much easier to manage a midi network with
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several possible controllers and many sound generators. It is really
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overkill if all that is needed is a midi merger.
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I have been told that nobody makes a merger that can mix more than
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two midi inputs. Does anybody know for sure the correctness of this
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statement?
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>From uucp Mon Feb 20 16:19 EST 1989
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>From gjm Mon Feb 20 16:14:21 EST 1989 remote from coma
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Subject: RE: JLCooper MSB+
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I haven't observed catastrophic failure with the MSB+ due to overloading
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the merge function. I have observed lost data, mostly audible by loosing
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a Note Off (On 0) message which results in stuck notes (time to hit the
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panic button).
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-Gary
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>From uucp Thu Jan 4 13:42 EST 1990
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>From nsw Thu Jan 4 13:41:50 1990 remote from cord
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Received: by cord.garage.att.com; 9001041841
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Date: 4 Jan 90 13:41:50 EST (Thu)
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From: Neil Weinstock <nsw@garage.att.com>
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Subject: Re: MIDI Thru
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Message-Id: <9001041841.AA12828@cord.garage.att.com>
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To: twitch!midi
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A MIDI thru is essentially just a straight through connection from the MIDI
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input. No processor or UART gets involved; it's just a very simple
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bit of wiring. That's why so-called "MIDI Thru boxes" are very cheap.
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A more appropriate place for a device's internally generated MIDI data to be
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merged with the input data would be at a MIDI output, though this function
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is seldom seen on synthesizers. It is found on some MIDI master controllers,
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which may (as in the Roland A-80) perform some massaging of the input data
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before merging it into the output.
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If you want this function but your synth doesn't support it, you could
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get a similar effect by placing the synth's MIDI out and thru into a merger
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(e.g., Pocket Merge).
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________________ __________________ _________________________
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//// \\// \\// \\\\
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\\\\ Neil Weinstock //\\ att!cord!nsw or //\\ "Your hair is so... ////
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//// AT&T Bell Labs \\// nsw@cord.att.com \\// lustre-laden." - Moss \\\\
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\\\\________________//\\__________________//\\_________________________////
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>From tjt Fri Aug 4 16:03 EDT 1989
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To: midi
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Subject: re: Midi Masters and Slaves
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>From arpa!STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM!ESC Fri Aug 4 13:15 EDT 1989 remote from att
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From: Eric S. Crawley <ESC@STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 89 19:35 EDT
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From: twitch!midi-request@att.att.com
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#### Forwarded from the Mostly MIDI mailing list (twitch!midi) ####
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>From uucp Thu Aug 3 18:22 EDT 1989
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>From srm Thu Aug 3 17:21 CDT 1989 remote from ihlpm
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To: twitch!midi
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Subject: re: Midi Masters and Slaves
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If you want to get fancier, there are a variety of MIDI patch bay/merger/processor
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boxes which cost much more. I haven't really investigated these much further
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since all I really want is a cheap switcher. Anyone care to comment here?
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Sam Mullins
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Sure, I'll comment:
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I have been using a JLCooper MSB+ switcher as the center of my MIDI
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network for almost a year and can't live without. I initally bought a
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DMC MX-8 switcher/processor and actually liked it better than the MSB+
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but I needed the 2 extra inputs provided by the MSB+.
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Both units allow switching (MSB+ is 8x8 and the MX-8 is 6x8) and both
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have 2 "processors" that allow you to process data from 2 separate
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inputs by filtering out unwanted data (SYSEX, realtime, program change,
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aftertouch, etc.) and by changing the channel of the data. The MX-8
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goes much further by allowing you to do velocity cross-switching, delay
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and MIDI echo, and keyboard range mapping. The MX-8 was also cheaper at
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the time. Both units allow the outputs of the "processors" to be merged
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at any output.
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Both units are programmable and allow you to select an input and channel
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to send program change commands that change the program of the switcher.
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Each program can send a number of program change commands to every
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output on various channels. So, you could have the switcher set up
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every slave when you select a program on the switcher.
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I have my MSB+ set up so it responds to program change commands from my
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master controller keyboard. I just select different programs on the
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controller to select different configurations. I leave the MIDI
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transmit channel of both of my controllers set to channel 1 and use the
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MSB+ to change the channel for a particular slave. That way, I don't
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have to worry about changing things on my controllers.
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A switcher is a must if you use a computer as a sequencer and patch
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editor. You would have to recable every time you wanted 2 way
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communication between a slave module and the computer if the slave
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doesn't have a keyboard on it.
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I could go on, but I think this is a good summary. If anyone wants more
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details, I would be happy to provide them.
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>From uucp Mon Aug 7 09:06 EDT 1989
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>From gfd Mon Aug 7 09:00:38 1989 remote from mtdca
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FROM: g.f.demarest
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TO: twitch!midi
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DATE: 7 Aug 1989 9:00 EDT
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SUBJECT: switcher
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> I have been using a JLCooper MSB+ switcher as the center of my MIDI
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> network for almost a year and can't live without. I initally bought a
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> DMC MX-8 switcher/processor and actually liked it better than the MSB+
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> but I needed the 2 extra inputs provided by the MSB+.
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Any prices on these boxes? Is that 6 in 8 out? Thrus? Merging?
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>From uucp Thu Mar 1 23:02 EST 1990
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>From upheisei!rick Fri Mar 2 12:04 JST 1990 remote from attunix
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To: upheisei!attunix!twitch!midi
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Date: 1990 Feb 24 Thu 1.27.82 EMT
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Subject: midi boxes
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One quick item: I bought a "midi through" box and quickly discovered to
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my chagrin that it can't merge MIDI channels. I recommend against buying
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any box that can't merge channels. When I bought it, I wasn't thinking about
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that eventuality, but I turned out to really need it; now I flip knobs all
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the time because I don't have it.
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Rick
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>From uucp Mon Aug 7 17:16 EDT 1989
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>From STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM!ESC Mon Aug 7 15:21 EDT 1989 remote from arpa
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Received: from DJINN.SCRC.Symbolics.COM by STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 637653; 7 Aug 89 15:31:47 EDT
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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 89 15:21 EDT
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From: Eric S. Crawley <ESC@STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
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To: midi@twitch.att.com
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In-Reply-To: The message of 7 Aug 89 10:14 EDT from twitch!midi-request@att.att.com
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Message-ID: <19890807192135.0.ESC@DJINN.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 89 10:14 EDT
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From: twitch!midi-request@att.att.com
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#### Forwarded from the Mostly MIDI mailing list (twitch!midi) ####
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>From uucp Mon Aug 7 09:06 EDT 1989
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>From gfd Mon Aug 7 09:00:38 1989 remote from mtdca
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FROM: g.f.demarest
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TO: twitch!midi
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DATE: 7 Aug 1989 9:00 EDT
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SUBJECT: switcher
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> I have been using a JLCooper MSB+ switcher as the center of my MIDI
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> network for almost a year and can't live without. I initally bought a
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> DMC MX-8 switcher/processor and actually liked it better than the MSB+
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> but I needed the 2 extra inputs provided by the MSB+.
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Any prices on these boxes? Is that 6 in 8 out? Thrus? Merging?
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As I recall, they were around $350+ or so but my memory isn't too great.
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The MSB+ was closer to $400. The MX-8 is 6 in, 8 out and the MSB+ is 8
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in, 8 out. There are no MIDI-Thrus and if you think about it for a
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minute, you realize that a thru on a switcher is not a good idea. Both
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units will merge any two inputs to any number of outputs (that is one of
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the most important features!).
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>From uucp Sun Jun 17 20:00 EDT 1990
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>From westmark!s4mjs!mjs Sun Jun 17 18:33:24 1990 remote from att
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Received: by westmark.UUCP (smail2.5)
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id AA17184; 17 Jun 90 18:33:24 EDT (Sun)
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Received: by s4mjs.uucp (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.20)
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id <m0hh7qR-0000vZC@s4mjs.uucp>; Sun, 17 Jun 90 18:11 EDT
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Message-Id: <m0hh7qR-0000vZC@s4mjs.uucp>
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Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 18:11 EDT
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From: mjs@s4mjs.uucp (M. J. Shannon)
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To: midi@twitch.att.com
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Subject: Confusion?
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Here's my current setup:
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(Computer) (drums) (tones)
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+---------+ +------------+ +------------+
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| out|--------->|in HR-16 out|--------->|in FB-01 out|--\
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| MQX-16S | +------------+ +------------+ |
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| in|<-------------------------------------------------/
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+---------+
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No matter which order I put the modules in, I lose the capability of
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getting system exclusive responses from *one* of them! Surely I'm not
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the first person in the world to come to this conclusion, so I guess my
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question is: what piece of hardware do I need to get *both* sets of
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system exclusive responses (and more, if/as/when I manage to expand my
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setup)?
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I assume my setup must change to:
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+---------+ +------------+ +------------+
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| out|--------->|in HR-16 out|--------->|in FB-01 out|--\
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| MQX-16S | +------------+ +------------+ |
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| | |thru |
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| in|<---------------------------\ inV |
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+---------+ \ +------------+ |
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\---|out MAGIC in|<-/
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+------------+
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or (I guess this is preferable):
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+---------+ +-------------+ +------------+
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| out|--------->|in FB-01 thru|-------->|in HR-16 out|--\
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| MQX-16S | +-------------+ +------------+ |
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| | |out |
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| in|<----\ inV |
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+---------+ \ +------------+ |
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\---|out MAGIC in|<------------------------/
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+------------+
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Now, given that such a MAGIC box exists, it would probably come in two
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different flavors: merger (always merges its inputs) and switch (allows
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reception of a single input). For each flavor, how many inputs could I
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get merged/switched, and what's it gonna cost me? Do any of you have
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such a beasty that you would recommend (for or against!)?
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For the record, it is *not* critical the way I currently use the setup,
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but it will be in the forseeable future.
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Thanks for any advice,
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Marty Shannon
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P.S. Them pictures are a pain to draw!
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>From uucp Mon Jun 18 00:40 EDT 1990
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>From upheisei!rick Mon Jun 18 11:24 JST 1990 remote from attunix
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To: upheisei!attunix!twitch!midi
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Date: 1990 Mai 24 Thu 1.00.56 EMT (90/06/18 Mon 02:24 GMT)
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Subject: merge?
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Marty Shannon: While I don't have a merge box myself, it sounds like
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you need one. I don't know of any that can merge > 2 inputs, but then
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I haven't looked very closely. I do continue to kick myself for NOT
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getting a merge box (I got a switch box).
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Drawing diagrams. Sounds like you need a more powerful text editor.
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I happen to know that the AT&T Toolchest has a version of EMACS that
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has an over-write mode. Makes it much easier to draw such pictures.
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There are probably other editors out there as well that can do it...
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Rick
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>From uucp Mon Jun 18 12:14 EDT 1990
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>From wbf Mon Jun 18 11:13 EDT 1990 remote from cbema
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Subject: Marty Shannon's Confusion
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/-----------\ /---------\ /---------\ /---------------\
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| SEQUENCER | | DRUMS | | TONES | | YOUR NEXT TOY |
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| in out | | in out | | in out | | in out |
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\-----------/ \---------/ \---------/ \---------------/
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| | | | | | | |
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| | | | | | | |
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/--------------------------------------------------------------\
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| out in out in out in out in |
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| ONE HECKUVA MAGIC BOX! |
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\--------------------------------------------------------------/
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The above figure is what it sounds like you need, Marty. The magic box
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could be a Digital Music MX-8 or a KMX MIDI Central (15 in/16 out) or some
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equivalent box. I'm not familiar with the KMX, but the add says it does
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merging. From the picture, it looks like only inputs 1 and 2 can be merged
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but that may be misleading. Better check that out for yourself. I have
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the Digital Music and it includes two "processors." Each processor can do
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many types of operations like merging, filtering, keyboard splitting,
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re-channelizing, etc., and accepts data from any two inputs. It is,
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however, only 6 in by 8 out... or is that 8 x 6? I forget which way it is.
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Note that no THRUs are shown in the diagram above. You can add things like
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and Alesis Midiverb II so that it gets program change commands sent to its
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input from the thru output of the drum machine, for example. Since this
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reverb doesn't do bulk dumps (it's not programmable) you won't have to
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waste an input/output pair on the switch/merger/magic box.
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Bill Fox cbema!wbf
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>From tjt Mon Jun 18 11:52 EST 1990
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To: midi
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Subject: Re: Confusion?
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> > THRU boxes are also a potential solution. They give you
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> Do they exist with multiple INs and a single OUT?
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|
|
|
You definitely need at least a merger. Simple ones can be gotten
|
|
for under a hundred dollars (I have a J.B.Cooper one that looks ugly
|
|
but has various dip switches for filtering things separately on each
|
|
of the 2 input channels). How much are those tiny Anadek (sp?) ones?
|
|
I've never seen a merger with more than 2 inputs, but I assume you
|
|
could gang them together - anyone have a system where they need to do
|
|
that? ...Tim...
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Mon Jun 18 15:48 EDT 1990
|
|
>From nsw Mon Jun 18 14:47:52 1990 remote from edsel
|
|
Received: by edsel.garage.att.com; 9006181847
|
|
Date: 18 Jun 90 14:47:52 EDT (Mon)
|
|
From: Neil Weinstock <nsw@garage.att.com>
|
|
Subject: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers)
|
|
Message-Id: <9006181847.AA13558@edsel.garage.att.com>
|
|
To: twitch!midi
|
|
|
|
Tim asked if anyone has a system where they need to have ganged mergers,
|
|
or many lines merged into one. Well, consider a system (similar to mine, not
|
|
so coincidentally ;-) where the computer is used for sequencing and sys-ex
|
|
storage, and there are several slave instruments plus a keyboard or two.
|
|
*Everything* needs to have input to the computer (for librarian purposes),
|
|
and this implies a many->one merger. I think this is similar to the
|
|
configuration that started this thread.
|
|
|
|
The obvious alternative is to take some MIDI switcher (a la MX8), and use
|
|
different patches to allow various instruments to send data to the computer.
|
|
That's not too bad, as it only requires some button pushing (infinitely better
|
|
than cable-jockeying.)
|
|
|
|
However, it sure would be nice to have all the outs plugged into a mega-merger,
|
|
with the merger output going to the computer. Even though a single MIDI line couldn't handle 4 instruments doing sys-ex dumps at the same time, I doubt that would ever happen. Typically, you'd be doing serious sys-ex work with
|
|
only one box at a time, or at least you could restrict yourself to that in
|
|
order to avoid blowing away the merger.
|
|
|
|
- Neil
|
|
|
|
--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--
|
|
Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs // What was sliced bread
|
|
att!edsel!nsw or nsw@garage.att.com \X/ the greatest thing since?
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Mon Jun 18 18:06 EDT 1990
|
|
>From rft Mon Jun 18 16:01 EDT 1990 remote from cblpe
|
|
|
|
To: midi
|
|
Subject: merge boxes
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have an Anatek merge box that merges two inputs to a single output.
|
|
The list price is $100, but the discount price is about $90.
|
|
It does not require batteries (it steals power from the MIDI circuit)
|
|
and it is very small, about 3x2x2.
|
|
|
|
I use it to merge the output of two keyboards.
|
|
The merged output is used as input to my sequencer.
|
|
I have not noticed any lost data.
|
|
I am happy with the Anatek merge box and it seems to suit my needs
|
|
just fine.
|
|
|
|
I am sure there is an upper limit on the box's capacity to merge two
|
|
simultaneous data streams, but I am not sure what the limit is.
|
|
There may be problems if you are trying to dump the memory of one synth
|
|
while trying the play notes/dump data on/from another synth.
|
|
You may lose data.
|
|
If you just want to do dumps from one synth at a time, everything
|
|
should be fine.
|
|
|
|
You can gang the Anatek mergers if more merging capability is needed.
|
|
I seem to recall they recommend using a maximum of 4 before plugging into
|
|
some type of MIDI gear.
|
|
This would allow you to merge 5 units into one MIDI data stream.
|
|
Also I seem to recall that Anatek uses some sort of data compression
|
|
when the two MIDI data streams are merged.
|
|
I think the Anatek merge box outputs a data stream that uses running status.
|
|
This may cause problems for some applications.
|
|
I will try to check on this sometime this week.
|
|
|
|
Running status is where the only the first message of a data stream targeted
|
|
to a given channel includes the status byte.
|
|
The status byte includes the message type, e.g. note on , note off, and
|
|
the channel number.
|
|
The status byte is then sent only when the message type changes.
|
|
|
|
Anatek also has a new "studio" version that can merge 7 or 8 inputs (I don't
|
|
remember which, I have a spec sheet at home and I can post more info if anyone
|
|
wants more details) and also includes some sort of patch bay facilities.
|
|
I don't know the price.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rick Taylor
|
|
|
|
|
|
>From tjt Mon Jun 18 16:32 EST 1990
|
|
To: midi
|
|
Subject: re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers)
|
|
|
|
> *Everything* needs to have input to the computer (for librarian purposes),
|
|
> and this implies a many->one merger.
|
|
....
|
|
> The obvious alternative is to take some MIDI switcher (a la MX8), and use
|
|
> different patches to allow various instruments to send data to the computer.
|
|
> That's not too bad, as it only requires some button pushing (infinitely better
|
|
> than cable-jockeying.)
|
|
> However, it sure would be nice to have all the outs plugged into a
|
|
> mega-merger, with the merger output going to the computer.
|
|
|
|
I agree. Makes me wonder why we haven't seen such things. I guess one
|
|
reason might be that if you have 2 identical synths (not unusual - I have
|
|
a small setup, but still have 2 TX81Zs), and you send a sysex message
|
|
that requests a dump to be sent to the computer, how do you identify
|
|
which one you want to send the dump? Guess we need synth id's something
|
|
like SCSI id's. ...Tim...
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Mon Jun 18 17:29 EDT 1990
|
|
>From gjm Mon Jun 18 16:29:17 EDT 1990 remote from coma
|
|
To: twitch!midi
|
|
Subject: Re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers)
|
|
|
|
|
|
I second what Neil said about using different patches on your MIDI switch
|
|
box. The JLCooper MSB+ accepts program change commands to switch patches,
|
|
I'm sure that the other boxes do to. So your program should be able to
|
|
switch patches to talk to appropriate devices as needed, one (or two at
|
|
most) at a time. I haven't tried any switch box patch changes which do
|
|
anything that is time critical, so if you're interested in sw.box patch
|
|
changes during a performance, you'll probably have to construct your own
|
|
tests and try out a box before you buy it.
|
|
|
|
-Gary
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Mon Jun 18 19:51 EDT 1990
|
|
>From greg Mon Jun 18 17:48 CDT 1990 remote from iwtgp
|
|
From: iwtgp!greg (Gregory A Youngdahl +1 708 979 0013)
|
|
To: twitch!midi
|
|
Subject: Midi Switcher Construction
|
|
|
|
Hi all,
|
|
|
|
Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth and remind everyone about
|
|
the Electronic Musician article in the Aug. '87 issue called "MIDI
|
|
Switcher Primer". Its not a merger, and it sounds like that is what
|
|
is required to satisfy the need that started this thread, but if a
|
|
switch would suffice, and build-it-yourself intrigues you, this article
|
|
describes how to do it. It is an electronic switch, complete with
|
|
opto-isolation per the MIDI standard. It also wouldn't be too hard to
|
|
wire up a MIDI version of the RS-232 or Parallel 'T' switches that
|
|
select various serial or parallel devices to connect to computer ports.
|
|
I'm sure parts for a 'T' switch solution would be available at the local
|
|
Parts-R-Us (Radio Shack) for much less than the $100 merger.
|
|
|
|
I can supply copies of the Electronic Musician article (reprinted
|
|
without permission) if anyone is interested.
|
|
|
|
Greg Youngdahl AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL
|
|
att!iwtgp!greg
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Mon Jun 18 22:52 EDT 1990
|
|
>From druwy!mab Mon Jun 18 19:44:46 1990 remote from mtuxo
|
|
FROM: druwy!mab
|
|
TO: mtuxo!twitch!midi
|
|
DATE: 18 Jun 1990 19:44 MDT
|
|
SUBJECT: re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers)
|
|
|
|
> reason might be that if you have 2 identical synths (not unusual - I have
|
|
> a small setup, but still have 2 TX81Zs), and you send a sysex message
|
|
> that requests a dump to be sent to the computer, how do you identify
|
|
> which one you want to send the dump? Guess we need synth id's something
|
|
> like SCSI id's. ...Tim...
|
|
|
|
Most of the synths I've played with include a system channel in their
|
|
sysex messages. If you have two identical synths, you can set them to
|
|
different system channels so that you can control them separately. I've
|
|
seen this on several Kawai synths, FB-01, and CZ-1000. All of them with
|
|
the possible exception of the CZ would remember their system channel when
|
|
powered off, although that blasted K5 requires you to manually enable
|
|
receipt of sysex messages after power-up. Same for FB-01. Maybe someday
|
|
the designers will realize we want hands-off MIDI control of all of our
|
|
toys.
|
|
|
|
Alan
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Tue Jun 19 10:10 EDT 1990
|
|
>From honet4!dob Tue Jun 19 09:02 EDT 1990 remote from att
|
|
From: honet4!dob (Duane O Bowker +1 201 949 2607)
|
|
To: att!twitch!midi
|
|
Subject: Mergers, etc.
|
|
|
|
Hi. Just wanted to add two cents to Neil's comments RE: MX8. That looks
|
|
like the way to go for many inputs to PC in librarian situations. You CAN
|
|
get by without any button pushes since the MX8 is itself switchable via
|
|
MIDI program change commands, if you configure it to be. So you would have
|
|
an MX8 set for librarian/editor A, another for librarian/editor B, another
|
|
for playing MIDI guitar into synth module C, et cetera...then build into
|
|
your librarian/editors appropriate program change commands to MX8 to switch
|
|
among the MIDI configurations. Other cool trick that I use in my lab at
|
|
work quite a bit: MX8 set-ups can include up to 8 program change commands
|
|
sent to MIDI outputs of MX8. In other words, I can send one program change
|
|
to the MX8 and that will configure essentially all the MIDI stuff in the lab.
|
|
(The MX8 holds the "macro set-ups", if you will, for the laboratory).
|
|
|
|
Duane Bowker
|
|
att!honet4!dob
|
|
|
|
>From tjt Tue Jun 19 09:43 EST 1990
|
|
To: midi
|
|
Subject: Re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers)
|
|
|
|
>From mosc Tue Jun 19 08:16:09 1990 remote from aloft
|
|
From: aloft!mosc (52842-H. S. Moscovitz)
|
|
|
|
This is a comment on real time patch changes on the JLCooper MSB+.
|
|
I have one of these devices and you can do this sometimes. It is
|
|
not repeatable. The safest think is don't send midi information
|
|
on your network for about 1 second after you told the MSB+ to
|
|
change patches. Maybe they should have called this box the MSB-.
|
|
Howard Moscovitz
|
|
aloft!mosc
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Tue Jun 19 14:40 EDT 1990
|
|
>From billb Tue Jun 19 13:39:42 1990 remote from mtunj
|
|
Received: by mtunj.ATT.COM (smail2.6)
|
|
id AA02897; 19 Jun 90 13:39:42 EDT (Tue)
|
|
To: twitch!midi
|
|
Subject: Re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers)
|
|
Message-Id: <9006191339.AA02897@mtunj.ATT.COM>
|
|
Date: 19 Jun 90 13:39:42 EDT (Tue)
|
|
From: billb@mtunj.ATT.COM (William Burnette)
|
|
|
|
|
|
>> This is a comment on real time patch changes on the JLCooper MSB+.
|
|
>> I have one of these devices and you can do this sometimes. It is
|
|
>> not repeatable. The safest think is don't send midi information
|
|
>> on your network for about 1 second after you told the MSB+ to
|
|
>> change patches. Maybe they should have called this box the MSB-.
|
|
>> Howard Moscovitz
|
|
>> aloft!mosc
|
|
>>
|
|
There is a bug in the MSB+, probably in the implementation of
|
|
running status. If a program change directed to the MSB+
|
|
is followed by sysex to anywhere, the MSB+ changes patches
|
|
again, probably to some number found in the sysex data.
|
|
I've found that a workaround is to follow the MSB+ patch
|
|
change by a patch change or note off to some channel
|
|
other than the MSB system channel. This seems to allow
|
|
speedy MSB+ patch changes. I haven't used this method
|
|
in a song sequence, only in a patch editor.
|
|
|
|
Bill Burnette
|
|
mtunj!billb
|
|
|
|
|
|
>From uucp Wed Aug 9 11:26 EDT 1989
|
|
>From srm Wed Aug 9 10:25 CDT 1989 remote from ihlpm
|
|
To: twitch!midi
|
|
Subject: MIDI switcher revisited
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Midi-mailers:
|
|
|
|
Last week I had said that I had been looking for a cheap MIDI switcher
|
|
for some time but had not found anything. My equipment consists of
|
|
a Casio CZ-1 keyboard, a Roland MT-32, a Roland MKS-100 sampler and
|
|
an Atari ST. Because I need to have 2-way communication between
|
|
each synth and the computer, I need at least 4-in switcher/thru box.
|
|
(I won't bore you with all of the possible configurations.)
|
|
I thought that I had a lead on a realtively cheap
|
|
Sonus box but that turned out to be only 2-in. So I was back to the
|
|
cheapest alternative being a Kawai 4-in 8-out for about $125.
|
|
Keep in mind that this buys you no memory or processing. I guess
|
|
I don't understand why these things are so expensive.
|
|
|
|
I had toyed with the idea of building my own but really didn't want to
|
|
spend time to deal with all the active electronics necessary for the
|
|
"thru" part of the box. The switching part is easy.
|
|
|
|
Finally I arrived at a compromise. I realized that I don't have many
|
|
delay problems by daisy chaining using the thru ports on my synths.
|
|
The real problem I was trying to solve was that I need to have any of
|
|
the synth's outputs feed the Atari's input. So, last night I just built a
|
|
simple switcher. A project box, 4 5-pin DIN connectors, a double-pole
|
|
quadruple-throw switch and some wire. About $9 at Radio Schlock. It
|
|
took me about 2.5 hours and I'm really not too swift with a soldering
|
|
iron.
|
|
|
|
Here is my current setup (I tried to draw a picture but it was getting
|
|
frustrating.)
|
|
|
|
ST out ---> CZ-1 in
|
|
CZ-1 thru ---> MT-32 in
|
|
MT-32 thru ---> MKS-100 in
|
|
|
|
CZ-1 out ---> switch input 1
|
|
MT-32 out ---> switch input 2
|
|
MKS-100 out ---> switch input 3
|
|
Switch output ---> ST in
|
|
|
|
This allows me to run patch librarians for the Roland things which have
|
|
a 2-way protocol for bulk transfers.
|
|
|
|
If I decide that I can't live with the delays on the thru ports, then I will
|
|
buy one of those MIDIMIX 6 thru devices for $35. I still have one switch
|
|
position open if I want to add one more input.
|
|
|
|
I realize that this is NOT practical for those of you with a much larger
|
|
setup but for me it is great. It did exactly what I wanted and I saved
|
|
at least $100. I don't really need merging or a thru capability.... yet :-)
|
|
|
|
Sam Mullins
|
|
|
|
>From att!messy.bellcore.com!mo Thu Aug 2 19:01:19 0700 1990
|
|
Received: by att.att.com; Thu Aug 2 19:03:29 1990
|
|
Received: by messy.bellcore.com (5.61/1.34)
|
|
id AA08681; Thu, 2 Aug 90 19:01:19 -0700
|
|
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 19:01:19 -0700
|
|
From: mo@messy.bellcore.com (Michael O'Dell)
|
|
Message-Id: <9008030201.AA08681@messy.bellcore.com>
|
|
To: midi@twitch.att.com
|
|
Subject: KMX Midi Central...
|
|
|
|
I have two and love them.
|
|
|
|
The KMX only costs a bit more than the others and you get
|
|
a completely general cross-bar - one gozoutta and one gozinna
|
|
per midithing back to the KMX. works like a dream....
|
|
|
|
oh yes - has a merger in 1 & 2, which I route to outputs 14 & 15
|
|
so I can run anything into the merger and through as well.
|
|
|
|
quality stuff!
|
|
-Mike
|
|
>From att!media-lab.media.mit.edu!joe Thu Aug 9 16:41:45 EDT 1990
|
|
Received: by att.att.com; Thu Aug 9 16:40:58 1990
|
|
Received: by media-lab.media.mit.edu (5.57/DA1.0.2)
|
|
id AA28488; Thu, 9 Aug 90 16:41:45 EDT
|
|
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 90 16:41:45 EDT
|
|
From: Joe Chung <joe@media-lab.media.mit.edu>
|
|
Message-Id: <9008092041.AA28488@media-lab.media.mit.edu>
|
|
To: midi@twitch.att.com
|
|
Subject: Opcode Studio 3
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think someone on this list asked about this box & I replied more or less
|
|
in favor of it... I've changed my mind!!
|
|
|
|
IT STINKS!!!
|
|
|
|
I found that it has *massive* problems dealing with slightly flaky
|
|
time code when used as a SMPTE to MIDI Time Code converter. I found
|
|
that when a SMPTE dropout occurs, the box can end up mis-synched by
|
|
over 15 frames, and remain mis-synched after good SMPTE is available.
|
|
|
|
I called a not-very-well-informed tech person at Opcode who seemed to
|
|
think that this behavior was part of the box's algorithm to jam
|
|
through dropouts (known as non-continous jam synch). I explained to
|
|
him *very* vocally that non-continous jam synch mode is something
|
|
which you *have* to be able to turn off, and that in any case, you
|
|
rarely want it for Midi Time Code conversion. You almost always want
|
|
the real numbers even if there's a drop out or discontinuity, since
|
|
good software can theoretically correct for errors. (note that this
|
|
stuff has nothing to do with the "Jam" button on the front of the
|
|
box... That seems to be for SMPTE copying only.
|
|
|
|
One factor may have been that I was using 25fps SMPTE... They may have
|
|
a bug at this rate which they haven't noticed so far. I'm going to try
|
|
to talk to someone who had something to do with building the thing.
|
|
(The guy I talked to said "25 FRAMES PER SECOND???" ... I said "yeah,
|
|
that's the European standard." He said "no it isn't, it's 24!" Guess
|
|
who was right.)
|
|
|
|
Conclusion: Be extremely careful if you want to use this thing. It
|
|
will probably behave OK as long as your SMPTE is flawless, but in my
|
|
experience, you always get a few little glitches here and there.
|
|
Winding up miss-synched is so incredibly annoying (and in my case
|
|
unusable) that the dangers of this box should be carefully considered.
|
|
|
|
On the other hand, I bought it from Sam Ash for $300, and it is
|
|
currently the only rack-mount MIDI interface. It also has a built-in
|
|
power supply & detachable cord instead of an external transformer &
|
|
flimsy little cable.
|
|
|
|
The only SMPTE->MTC converter that I would be caught dead with is the
|
|
Adam Smith Zeta-3. It is a way-pro device & costs it (~$2500)... It is
|
|
also one of the best two-transport tape synchronizers around.
|
|
|
|
I also messed a bit with the Tascam MIDIizer. I dont' recomend it. We
|
|
had a bunch of flakiness, also featuring random miss-synchs. It's a
|
|
real pain in the butt to use as a straight SMPTE->MTC converter as
|
|
well.
|
|
|
|
By the way... Anyone mess with the Roland A-880 MIDI patch bay? I had
|
|
huge problems with this thing when I used it's merge function. Ever
|
|
notice that Roland equipment is very cavalier about sending random
|
|
sustain/omni-mode/whatever offs? Why don't they ever let you defeat
|
|
these "features?"
|
|
|
|
>From keyhole!tjt Mon Dec 3 21:05 EST 1990
|
|
To: twitch!midi
|
|
Subject: re: Midi Cabling
|
|
|
|
> I just want to be able to:
|
|
> 1) Drive the Korg from either the Keyboard or
|
|
> the computer WITHOUT messing with cables.
|
|
|
|
You need a 'merger', a box with 2 MIDI in's and 1 MIDI out.
|
|
Anadek (sp?) makes a 'pocket merger' for < $100. The November 1990
|
|
Electronic Musician magazine has a do-it-yourself project for building
|
|
a merger.
|
|
|
|
> Can two 3-wire midi cables be "wire-or'ed"?
|
|
|
|
In some situations it can work (if the 2 inputs are never
|
|
simultaneously active), but occasionally still produces garbage.
|
|
Anyone know if there are cases when it can actually damage
|
|
the equipment? ...Tim...
|
|
|
|
>From homxb!gabin Tue Dec 4 08:21 EST 1990
|
|
From: homxb!gabin (Jay Gabin +1 201 615 2830)
|
|
To: twitch!midi
|
|
Subject: re: Midi Cabling
|
|
|
|
|
|
About using merger cables and such...
|
|
|
|
I had the same problem of wanting to drive my set-up from
|
|
my main keyboard or my computer without fooling with
|
|
cables. I bought a MIDI patch-bay (I think it's J. L. Cooper
|
|
and cost $80 mailorder). This has 3 inputs and 8 outputs.
|
|
With switches on the front, you can make each of the
|
|
outputs receive any of the 3 inputs. So, with a flick of
|
|
these switches I can bring the computer into or out of
|
|
the loop.
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Jay
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>From tjt Tue Dec 4 10:49 EST 1990
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To: midi
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Subject: Re: Midi Cabling
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>From att!ifi.uib.no!gunnars Tue Dec 4 08:47:10 +0100 1990
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From: gunnars@ifi.uib.no (Stud. Gunnar Sylthe)
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James Fischer says:
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=> Can I do this?
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=>
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=> Keyboard M3R
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=> Out ---------->----+-------> In
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=> ^
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=> Computer |
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=> Out ---------->----+
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=>
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=> Computer M3R
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=> In <------------------------ Out
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=>
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=> ... by soldering up a custom cable? Can two 3-wire midi
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=> cables be "wire-or'ed"?
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=>
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=> Or must I buy a "Thru box" to do this?
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I think what you need is some kind of MIDI merge box. If I were you
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I'd look into the Anatek PocketMerge. I've never used it myself, and
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my sole "experience" with it is from reading the ads and a test in a
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Norwegian musician's mag, but it is supposedly a cheap, simple and
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reliable gadget which does one thing (merging to midi ins to one
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midi thru) and does it well.
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If you do try it out, why not post some "test results" to the list?
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I, for one, would be interested.
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--Gunnar Sylthe
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gunnars@ifi.uib.no
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>From mtuxo!druco!mab Tue Dec 4 10:15 MST 1990
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To: mtuxo!twitch!midi
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Subject: Anatek PocketMerge
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I bought the Anatek PocketMerge a while back and it works as advertised.
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It has two INs that are merged into one OUT. I haven't stress-tested it,
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so I don't know how well it would handle lots of simultaneous data from
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both INs. My main use is to minimize cable swapping, so I rarely have
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both INs feeding data at the same time.
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Alan Bland
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>From mvgpl!mvcrg Tue Dec 4 15:50 EST 1990
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From: mvgpl!mvcrg (Christopher R Gayle +1 508 960 2904)
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To: twitch!midi
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Subject: merge box
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Did read in recent MMML items somewhere that there is a build-it-yourself
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merge box? I'd like to know where to get the info to build one... has
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anyone out there done this? If so, how did it perform?
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How about switchboxes? Are they too complicated for reliable hand-wired
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projects? Any experience with these?
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- Topher Gayle x2904 mvcrg@mvgpl.att.com
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>From keyhole!tjt Tue Dec 4 19:11 EST 1990
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To: twitch!midi
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Subject: do-it-yourself merge box
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> From: mvgpl!mvcrg (Christopher R Gayle +1 508 960 2904)
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> Did read in recent MMML items somewhere that there is a build-it-yourself
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> merge box? I'd like to know where to get the info to build one... has
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The November 1990 issue of Electronic Musician magazine had an article
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that showed how to build one. You can buy the PC board and programmed
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EPROMS from the author of the article, for $28 and $10, respectively.
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...Tim...
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>From tjt Tue Dec 4 19:19 EST 1990
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To: midi
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Subject: Re: merge box
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From: ihlpe!greg (Gregory A Youngdahl +1 708 979 0013)
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Topher,
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The build-it-yourself box you are referring to may be the MIDI
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switch box that I had mentioned a while back. This is an electronic
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switch circuit described in an article in the Aug. '87 issue of
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Electronic Musician. This circuit may be a solution to James' need
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to avoid physically switching cables, but it is not a merger. I have
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a copy of the article that I could send out if you are interested in
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it. I have not built this unit, but I don't see why it wouldn't do
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the job it is intended for. Of course the job could also be accomplished
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with a mechanical switch.
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--
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Greg Youngdahl AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL
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att!ihlpe!greg
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>From tjt Wed Dec 5 11:48 EST 1990
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To: midi
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Subject: Re: do-it-yourself merge box
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>From ihlpm!srm Wed Dec 5 09:37 CST 1990
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>The November 1990 issue of Electronic Musician magazine had an article
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>that showed how to build one. You can buy the PC board and programmed
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>EPROMS from the author of the article, for $28 and $10, respectively.
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>
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> ...Tim...
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Before anyone goes to a lot of trouble....My brother just bought a Pocket
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Merge for $59 for DJ's in ChicagoLand. At that price it may not be worth
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building a kit for $38+. Of course, if you enjoy that kind of thing go ahead.
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Sam
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